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Little work, yet the most "important" thing in the world?

Little work, yet the most "important" thing in the world?

Message boards : Number crunching : Little work, yet the most "important" thing in the world?
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63849 - Posted: 12 Apr 2021, 17:08:14 UTC - in response to Message 63847.  

It took me about 45 minutes to set up a VM with 64bit Ubuntu Mate 20.04 LTS, installing Boinc, installing the needed libraries with
sudo apt install lib32ncurses6 lib32z1 lib32stdc++-7-dev

and add CPDN to my Boinc Manager. To be fair, i have installed Linux with a GUI, because i cannot work just with a console. But when you install Linux with an GUI, the navigation is nearly the same as in Windows. Yes, it depends on which Linux distribution you use, thats why i mentioned, that I use Ubuntu Mate.

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Felix
You are clearly someone who knows about computers. I've managed to get through 25 years of working with them without having to touch that horrid Linux. It's even harder to use than Apple! It took me 6 hours to get Linux running.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63850 - Posted: 12 Apr 2021, 17:08:47 UTC - in response to Message 63831.  

We're NOT outsourcing work to people with Windows.
It's being provided to people with appropiate computer systems.
And for about a year now, that has NOT been Windows people.
I must have imagined those Windows tasks I saw running.
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[SG]Felix

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Message 63851 - Posted: 12 Apr 2021, 18:07:46 UTC - in response to Message 63849.  
Last modified: 12 Apr 2021, 18:13:19 UTC

It took me about 45 minutes to set up a VM with 64bit Ubuntu Mate 20.04 LTS, installing Boinc, installing the needed libraries with
sudo apt install lib32ncurses6 lib32z1 lib32stdc++-7-dev

and add CPDN to my Boinc Manager. To be fair, i have installed Linux with a GUI, because i cannot work just with a console. But when you install Linux with an GUI, the navigation is nearly the same as in Windows. Yes, it depends on which Linux distribution you use, thats why i mentioned, that I use Ubuntu Mate.

Greets from Germany
Felix
You are clearly someone who knows about computers. I've managed to get through 25 years of working with them without having to touch that horrid Linux. It's even harder to use than Apple! It took me 6 hours to get Linux running.


You can't compare Linux Distros that easy. I have a few Raspberry Pi's, running different Raspbian versions. After comparing these, it was clear for me, that Ubuntu Mate is the easiest to use, so i gave it a try.
Over the last years i tried to run Debian, nrmal Ubuntu, Arch. those are really complicated, i couldn't get them running as I wanted. After i saw Ubuntu Mate, I was surprised, how easy it is to work with.

Hardest part on installing CPDN under Linux was finding out, which packets are needed. Maybe some should write this on the starts page, right to the explanation how to install and run CPDN with Boinc.

Edit:
Found the following thread, maybe this could be linked on: https://www.cpdn.org/forum_thread.php?id=8916&postid=62038

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Felix
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wateroakley

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Message 63852 - Posted: 12 Apr 2021, 19:47:57 UTC - in response to Message 63851.  

45 minutes to install and set up a VM, Ubuntu and BOINC? Phew!

After fighting too many computing OS and layers for too many years, I had settled on an easy life using M$. With time on my hands in this pandemic year, the plan to run Linux/BOINC/CPDN on a Windows VM 'host' was testing my patience. Maybe I'll take a look at ubuntu mate next time?
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Profile Dave Jackson
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Message 63853 - Posted: 12 Apr 2021, 19:54:20 UTC

I guess everyone has their favourite Linux distro (among Linux users anyway!) I have now been with XUbuntu for many years, find it very easy to set up how I like it and to navigate. I find Windows10 a right pain.

For support Staff, Linux is nice because it is very easy to lock users out of things you as admin don't want them to mess with.

If I get another Laptop, I will play with running Linux under Windows to have a go at writing up how to do it step by step which is clearly what is needed.
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Profile Alan K

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Message 63854 - Posted: 12 Apr 2021, 22:26:24 UTC - in response to Message 63850.  

I must have imagined those Windows tasks I saw running.


You didn't imagine them. There are so many windows users with powerful machines that gobble up tasks as soon as they are put on the server. For us mere mortals with only 4 cores it is luck of the draw if we get any. That's really why I am now using what is a foreign language to you - Linux (all be it in a VM on a windows machine)!!
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63856 - Posted: 13 Apr 2021, 16:04:32 UTC - in response to Message 63851.  

You can't compare Linux Distros that easy. I have a few Raspberry Pi's, running different Raspbian versions. After comparing these, it was clear for me, that Ubuntu Mate is the easiest to use, so i gave it a try.
I used XUbuntu, as it was recommended as the easiest on another Boinc project forum. Despite being pre"installed" on a memory stick when I downloaded it, it took all day to work out how to even install a program. That's enough of my time wasted. Windows for me forever.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63857 - Posted: 13 Apr 2021, 16:06:08 UTC - in response to Message 63853.  

I guess everyone has their favourite Linux distro (among Linux users anyway!) I have now been with XUbuntu for many years, find it very easy to set up how I like it and to navigate. I find Windows10 a right pain.

For support Staff, Linux is nice because it is very easy to lock users out of things you as admin don't want them to mess with.
I have worked for 11 years as a network manager in two places. Both loved me due to my lack of locking everything. A liberal attitude gives you happy users.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63858 - Posted: 13 Apr 2021, 16:07:57 UTC - in response to Message 63854.  

I must have imagined those Windows tasks I saw running.


You didn't imagine them. There are so many windows users with powerful machines that gobble up tasks as soon as they are put on the server. For us mere mortals with only 4 cores it is luck of the draw if we get any. That's really why I am now using what is a foreign language to you - Linux (all be it in a VM on a windows machine)!!
Four? FOUR?! [titter] I have 96. I'd defenestrate a four core machine, I can't stand waiting, and I forget what it was I was doing when I clicked something last year!
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Message 63859 - Posted: 13 Apr 2021, 18:27:12 UTC - in response to Message 63858.  

Four? FOUR?! [titter] I have 96. I'd defenestrate a four core machine, I can't stand waiting, and I forget what it was I was doing when I clicked something last year!


In 1999 I defenestrated all my machines. They have been Windows free since.
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Les Bayliss
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Message 63860 - Posted: 13 Apr 2021, 21:32:48 UTC - in response to Message 63858.  

I can't stand waiting

Then you're on the wrong project now.
The last small batch of Windows work (last year), was from a researcher at a UK uni, NOT an external research group that might provide continuous work.
You could be waiting months for the next few models using a Windows climate program to show up.
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mikey

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Message 63862 - Posted: 14 Apr 2021, 12:53:05 UTC - in response to Message 63813.  

A bit more info


That is a 2 step process:
1. Look at the Project status page, at the Tasks by application section, in the Application column, to find the name of the application in which you're interested.
2. Look on the Applications page to find out which OS's have that Application.

**********************

And don't forget: the tasks are from research groups external to Oxford.
What OS each group uses, is entirely up to them.


Thank you I was able to figure things out.

I am hoping though that you guys can prod them to consider making a Windows app for their tasks in the future. Yes I realize that most programmers and Scientists grow up learning to use Linux or Mac in some form but over half the World uses Windows pc's as according to Boinc Stats Windows pc's comprise a large percentage of Boinc users https://www.boincstats.com/stats/-1/host/breakdown/os/0/4/0 Yes Linux is listed first but then if you notice Windows has multiple listings for all the different versions, I think being able to take advantage of that group of crunchers would enhance the whole idea of understanding the Climate and that Climate Prediction is a very worthwhile thing. YES it would absolutely increase the workload on your hardware and of course that needs to be considered as well.
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Profile Dave Jackson
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Message 63863 - Posted: 14 Apr 2021, 13:11:39 UTC - in response to Message 63862.  

I am hoping though that you guys can prod them to consider making a Windows app for their tasks in the future.


Again, a two stage process. As moderators we can and do suggest things to the project from time to time. It would then be down to them to decide whether to prod the researchers or the research institutions who commission Oxford to send out the work for them.

On this issue, I am not sure the prodding at either stage would be particularly effective. If we really are looking at the end of Windows tasks for most of the time (The way fashions change I would not be surprised to at some point see a dearth of Linux tasks and lots of windows ones again.) I think the way to go would be to package the tasks up to run in a VM under VB as some other projects do.I know there are downsides to that approach but an upside would be the end of tasks crashing because of missing libraries.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63873 - Posted: 16 Apr 2021, 17:19:23 UTC - in response to Message 63859.  

Four? FOUR?! [titter] I have 96. I'd defenestrate a four core machine, I can't stand waiting, and I forget what it was I was doing when I clicked something last year!
In 1999 I defenestrated all my machines. They have been Windows free since.
You're supposed to throw the computer out of the window, not the other way round. Actually it might refer to people out of a window, which is much more fun.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63874 - Posted: 16 Apr 2021, 17:20:01 UTC - in response to Message 63860.  

I can't stand waiting

Then you're on the wrong project now.
The last small batch of Windows work (last year), was from a researcher at a UK uni, NOT an external research group that might provide continuous work.
You could be waiting months for the next few models using a Windows climate program to show up.
I'm on more than one project. This one will sit waiting to grab.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63875 - Posted: 16 Apr 2021, 17:22:14 UTC - in response to Message 63863.  

I am hoping though that you guys can prod them to consider making a Windows app for their tasks in the future.
Again, a two stage process. As moderators we can and do suggest things to the project from time to time. It would then be down to them to decide whether to prod the researchers or the research institutions who commission Oxford to send out the work for them.

On this issue, I am not sure the prodding at either stage would be particularly effective. If we really are looking at the end of Windows tasks for most of the time (The way fashions change I would not be surprised to at some point see a dearth of Linux tasks and lots of windows ones again.) I think the way to go would be to package the tasks up to run in a VM under VB as some other projects do.I know there are downsides to that approach but an upside would be the end of tasks crashing because of missing libraries.
This works very well at LHC. Have a word with the mods over there.
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Les Bayliss
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Message 63876 - Posted: 16 Apr 2021, 21:38:28 UTC

The project people decided about 4 years ago to only have one OS for each of the many climate programs.
The project manager made a post here about it at the time.
And we've lost the research groups that ran Windows.

So Windows users are just going to have to get used to the idea that the days of constant work for Windows computers is OVER.
There'll still be the occasion lone researcher at some UK university using Windows, but those will be few and far between.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63879 - Posted: 17 Apr 2021, 17:09:59 UTC - in response to Message 63876.  

The project people decided about 4 years ago to only have one OS for each of the many climate programs.
The project manager made a post here about it at the time.
And we've lost the research groups that ran Windows.

So Windows users are just going to have to get used to the idea that the days of constant work for Windows computers is OVER.
There'll still be the occasion lone researcher at some UK university using Windows, but those will be few and far between.
Or more accurately, the researchers are just going to have to get used to the idea of waiting ages for the results.
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Message 63880 - Posted: 17 Apr 2021, 18:23:48 UTC - in response to Message 63879.  

Or more accurately, the researchers are just going to have to get used to the idea of waiting ages for the results.


And as none of them seem to have done the work to either port their application to Windows, or do the VM wrapper approach, presumably they don't mind the wait.
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Message 63881 - Posted: 17 Apr 2021, 22:06:38 UTC - in response to Message 63879.  

Peter

Saying that the researchers are too stupid to know how long the models are taking to get processed is just trolling.
Future posts along these lines will be deleted.
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