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Peter Hucker

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Message 63255 - Posted: 3 Jan 2021, 18:10:00 UTC - in response to Message 63250.  
Last modified: 3 Jan 2021, 18:13:26 UTC

People accessing other people's folders should know what they're doing anyway?


If all the "shoulds" did, things would be very different.
I thought Linux was for knowledgeable people. Preventing things like this is what I expect on fluffy operating systems like Mac or even Windows.

Anyway, I can't see it being required very often, but it most certainly is very very annoying when you try to run a program when you're in the folder it's in! It's the reason I will never use Linux ever again.

Installing a program is a common occurrence and should be very simple. Download file, double click file. Anything more than that, forget it. When I fill my car with petrol, I don't expect to have to prime filters, retune the engine, remove several padlocks from the fuel tank etc. I just fill and drive off.
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lazlo_vii

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Message 63268 - Posted: 5 Jan 2021, 0:03:19 UTC - in response to Message 63229.  
Last modified: 5 Jan 2021, 0:05:29 UTC

I think the final straw was the command line not seeing a program in the current directory without me prefixing with ./ I class that as exceedingly unintuitive bad programming and won't be using it again.
http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/unix-koans/two_paths.html
I only got a C in English Literature, you'll have to explain what you mean. And you arsed up your quoting.



peter@nobox:~$ man man
peter@nobox:~$ man bash
peter@nobox:~$ man pwd
peter@nobox:~$ man export
peter@nobox:~$ man echo
peter@nobox:~$ echo $PATH
peter@nobox:~$ pwd
peter@nobox:~$ export PATH=$PATH:$PWD
peter@nobox:~$ echo $PATH
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63274 - Posted: 5 Jan 2021, 18:54:37 UTC - in response to Message 63268.  

peter@nobox:~$ man man
peter@nobox:~$ man bash
peter@nobox:~$ man pwd
peter@nobox:~$ man export
peter@nobox:~$ man echo
peter@nobox:~$ echo $PATH
peter@nobox:~$ pwd
peter@nobox:~$ export PATH=$PATH:$PWD
peter@nobox:~$ echo $PATH
Microsoft stopped most command line usage a couple of decades ago.
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Profile Dave Jackson
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Message 63277 - Posted: 5 Jan 2021, 20:51:03 UTC - in response to Message 63274.  

Microsoft stopped most command line usage a couple of decades ago.


I don't use it very often even though I am exclusively on Linux. Last use was to compile the latest (at the time) testing version of BOINC from source as there are things I don't like that the packagers do to it.
Please do not private message myself or other moderators for help. This limits the number of people who are able to help and deprives others who may benefit from the answer.
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lazlo_vii

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Message 63279 - Posted: 6 Jan 2021, 3:58:22 UTC - in response to Message 63274.  

peter@nobox:~$ man man
peter@nobox:~$ man bash
peter@nobox:~$ man pwd
peter@nobox:~$ man export
peter@nobox:~$ man echo
peter@nobox:~$ echo $PATH
peter@nobox:~$ pwd
peter@nobox:~$ export PATH=$PATH:$PWD
peter@nobox:~$ echo $PATH
Microsoft stopped most command line usage a couple of decades ago.



Qu’est-ce que c’est "PowerShell?"
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63286 - Posted: 6 Jan 2021, 17:22:50 UTC - in response to Message 63279.  

peter@nobox:~$ man man
peter@nobox:~$ man bash
peter@nobox:~$ man pwd
peter@nobox:~$ man export
peter@nobox:~$ man echo
peter@nobox:~$ echo $PATH
peter@nobox:~$ pwd
peter@nobox:~$ export PATH=$PATH:$PWD
peter@nobox:~$ echo $PATH
Microsoft stopped most command line usage a couple of decades ago.
Qu’est-ce que c’est "PowerShell?"
C'est something you hardly ever use. In Linux I had to use the command prompt just to install something. It wasn't actually possible with the GUI. Even after I gave it permission, the "run as a program" didn't appear in the context menu. I guess there is something more buggy than Windows after all.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63287 - Posted: 6 Jan 2021, 17:24:23 UTC - in response to Message 63277.  

Microsoft stopped most command line usage a couple of decades ago.
I don't use it very often even though I am exclusively on Linux. Last use was to compile the latest (at the time) testing version of BOINC from source as there are things I don't like that the packagers do to it.
So how come every time I see people discussing Linux they're using commands? If Windows is under discussion it's "click this". If Linux is under discussion it's "type.... [screeds of text]".
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Profile Dave Jackson
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Message 63288 - Posted: 6 Jan 2021, 20:01:54 UTC - in response to Message 63287.  

So how come every time I see people discussing Linux they're using commands? If Windows is under discussion it's "click this". If Linux is under discussion it's "type.... [screeds of text]".


It is to do with what one uses Linux for. Some Linux users are addicted to the command line and would rather use it than a gui. Most Windows users never need to play with, sorry manually edit the registry but there are times when it is the only way to sort something. A lot of times where both Windows and Linux versions of the same program exist and it is only possible to install via the command line, it is because no one has bothered to produce a packaged version of it. Doing that in itself isn't particularly difficult but the process of getting a packaged version of something accepted by those looking after the repositories can be time consuming and a bit of a hassle.

A Linux user who never used programs outside of those supplied by most distributions, (office suite, email, browser and a number of others should never need to use the command line. I am pretty sure it would be possible to write the BOINC program so it included the 32bit libraries needed by CPDN science applications and a few other projects but as is often the case with Linux those in charge assume a greater degree of knoledge than the average Windows user has. If they stopped doing that and forced their own ideas of what options we should use, many die hard Linux users would be up in arms.

I like the flexibility of being able to set it up how I like it and I have taught myself enough about using the command line to make use of it when a GUI doesn't suffice.

When I first started using it, I used the command line more as I had machines where the % drain on resources of a GUI was much greater. However that is no longer an issue for me with modern CPUs and RAM levels.
Please do not private message myself or other moderators for help. This limits the number of people who are able to help and deprives others who may benefit from the answer.
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lazlo_vii

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Message 63289 - Posted: 6 Jan 2021, 21:07:31 UTC - in response to Message 63286.  
Last modified: 6 Jan 2021, 21:08:34 UTC

C'est something you hardly ever use. In Linux I had to use the command prompt just to install something. It wasn't actually possible with the GUI. Even after I gave it permission, the "run as a program" didn't appear in the context menu. I guess there is something more buggy than Windows after all.


All of this complaining only underscores your ignorance of how computer hardware and software works. I thought ignorance was supposed to be blissful but I guess not. Now, it's not my job to educate you so I will not try...much. All you seem to know is how you think it should work and until you stop believing your opinions and start embracing the facts things will only get worse. The truth is simply this: The best way to do any job starts with using the right tool. Don't use a command line to browse the web or edit photos. Don't use a GUI admin a cluster of servers. Don't think a drill, a saw, and a hammer are meant for the same jobs just because they can all make holes in things.

Learning to properly use your tools will make you much happier. Unless of course you are the kind of person that is only happy when they are complaining.
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Profile Alan K

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Message 63291 - Posted: 6 Jan 2021, 23:36:25 UTC - in response to Message 63288.  
Last modified: 6 Jan 2021, 23:39:02 UTC

" I am pretty sure it would be possible to write the BOINC program so it included the 32bit libraries needed by CPDN science applications and a few other projects but as is often the case with Linux those in charge assume a greater degree of knoledge than the average Windows user has."

From my (very) limited knowledge of LINUX wouldn't this be a problem as there are so many "flavours" of LINUX around. I know from experience (2 versions of UBUNTU) that the 32bit libraries are different.

I have been using WINDOWS long enough to remember having to edit .ini and config files to install programs and there are still sometimes problems with installers. I also used to use the CMD prompt when diagnosing some - especially network - problems, can't get to grips with POWERSHELL!
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63292 - Posted: 7 Jan 2021, 19:11:03 UTC - in response to Message 63288.  

Doing that in itself isn't particularly difficult but the process of getting a packaged version of something accepted by those looking after the repositories can be time consuming and a bit of a hassle.
Don't tell me it's like Google Play on Android and someone has to approve your program? At least on Android you can just download an APK (as in EXE) file and install it anyway. You just get a complaint from the OS once saying it's dangerous, then turn off the warning.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63293 - Posted: 7 Jan 2021, 19:13:43 UTC - in response to Message 63289.  

C'est something you hardly ever use. In Linux I had to use the command prompt just to install something. It wasn't actually possible with the GUI. Even after I gave it permission, the "run as a program" didn't appear in the context menu. I guess there is something more buggy than Windows after all.


All of this complaining only underscores your ignorance of how computer hardware and software works. I thought ignorance was supposed to be blissful but I guess not. Now, it's not my job to educate you so I will not try...much. All you seem to know is how you think it should work and until you stop believing your opinions and start embracing the facts things will only get worse. The truth is simply this: The best way to do any job starts with using the right tool. Don't use a command line to browse the web or edit photos. Don't use a GUI admin a cluster of servers. Don't think a drill, a saw, and a hammer are meant for the same jobs just because they can all make holes in things.

Learning to properly use your tools will make you much happier. Unless of course you are the kind of person that is only happy when they are complaining.
Explain to me why I could not install a program with the GUI. Double click downloaded file, the OS thinks it's a text file and opens it with a text editor not capable of such a large file and crashes. Right click file and go to properties, and allow it to run as a program. Double click it again. Still loads as text. Right click to select "run as program", option not there. This nonsense just doesn't happen in Windows.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63294 - Posted: 7 Jan 2021, 19:19:36 UTC - in response to Message 63291.  
Last modified: 7 Jan 2021, 19:19:59 UTC

From my (very) limited knowledge of LINUX wouldn't this be a problem as there are so many "flavours" of LINUX around. I know from experience (2 versions of UBUNTU) that the 32bit libraries are different.
another reason to avoid Linux., Flavours cause extra problems.

I have been using WINDOWS long enough to remember having to edit .ini and config files to install programs
I have used all versions of Windows and don't remember having to do that.

and there are still sometimes problems with installers. I also used to use the CMD prompt when diagnosing some - especially network - problems, can't get to grips with POWERSHELL!
Powershell is just the command prompt with extras. You can type anything into powershell that you would type into a command prompt, or DOS as I call it. I do use the command prompt for ipconfig and ping, but that's about it. You can probably do that in the GUI, but I started with DOS so it's stuck.
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Profile Dave Jackson
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Message 63295 - Posted: 7 Jan 2021, 20:33:11 UTC

Afraid Millennium Edition was the last version of Windows I used on my own machines so, I can't really comment on the command line in Windows. Installing stuff in Linux can be done from the GUI if the program is available in .deb format for Debian and Debian based distributions such as Ubuntu or RPM format if a Red Hat based distro. Then a right click and open with followed by selecting the appropriate installer program works. Quite a lot of things not supplied by the distribution repositories are available like this but by no means all.

Of course a large proportion of computer users never use anything that isn't there when they buy the computer and those users would have no problems using a Linux distribution, indeed given the ease with which a naive user can click on something that installs a virus on their system, they might well be better off with Linux but as ever it is hoses for courses.
Please do not private message myself or other moderators for help. This limits the number of people who are able to help and deprives others who may benefit from the answer.
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lazlo_vii

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Message 63296 - Posted: 7 Jan 2021, 22:20:09 UTC - in response to Message 63293.  

C'est something you hardly ever use. In Linux I had to use the command prompt just to install something. It wasn't actually possible with the GUI. Even after I gave it permission, the "run as a program" didn't appear in the context menu. I guess there is something more buggy than Windows after all.


All of this complaining only underscores your ignorance of how computer hardware and software works. I thought ignorance was supposed to be blissful but I guess not. Now, it's not my job to educate you so I will not try...much. All you seem to know is how you think it should work and until you stop believing your opinions and start embracing the facts things will only get worse. The truth is simply this: The best way to do any job starts with using the right tool. Don't use a command line to browse the web or edit photos. Don't use a GUI admin a cluster of servers. Don't think a drill, a saw, and a hammer are meant for the same jobs just because they can all make holes in things.

Learning to properly use your tools will make you much happier. Unless of course you are the kind of person that is only happy when they are complaining.
Explain to me why I could not install a program with the GUI. Double click downloaded file, the OS thinks it's a text file and opens it with a text editor not capable of such a large file and crashes. Right click file and go to properties, and allow it to run as a program. Double click it again. Still loads as text. Right click to select "run as program", option not there. This nonsense just doesn't happen in Windows.


The answers to your questions is just a few internet searches away.
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Message 63297 - Posted: 8 Jan 2021, 1:54:56 UTC

WHAT HAS ANYOF THIS T DO WITH DEADLINES!
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63298 - Posted: 8 Jan 2021, 18:13:04 UTC - in response to Message 63295.  

Afraid Millennium Edition was the last version of Windows I used on my own machines so, I can't really comment on the command line in Windows. Installing stuff in Linux can be done from the GUI if the program is available in .deb format for Debian and Debian based distributions such as Ubuntu or RPM format if a Red Hat based distro.
There's another reason I'll stay away right there, different formats of installers for each flavour. What a mess.

Of course a large proportion of computer users never use anything that isn't there when they buy the computer and those users would have no problems using a Linux distribution
Really? What about a decent Word processor? Even my computer illiterate Aunt got MS Office for her Windows laptop.

indeed given the ease with which a naive user can click on something that installs a virus on their system, they might well be better off with Linux but as ever it is hoses for courses.
Viruses can't be installed if you have a virus checker.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63299 - Posted: 8 Jan 2021, 18:14:34 UTC - in response to Message 63296.  

Explain to me why I could not install a program with the GUI. Double click downloaded file, the OS thinks it's a text file and opens it with a text editor not capable of such a large file and crashes. Right click file and go to properties, and allow it to run as a program. Double click it again. Still loads as text. Right click to select "run as program", option not there. This nonsense just doesn't happen in Windows.
The answers to your questions is just a few internet searches away.
I did search, and asked, and got replies in forums on Boinc. But still it wouldn't work. Again, Windows just installs. Double click, no instructions needed. Why is Linux designed so badly?
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63300 - Posted: 8 Jan 2021, 18:15:35 UTC - in response to Message 63297.  

WHAT HAS ANYOF THIS T DO WITH DEADLINES!
Well according to a very arrogant moderator over in the Boinc forums, it's up to the person who started the thread. And since that's me, I don't care if the subject changes to farming....
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Les Bayliss
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Message 63301 - Posted: 8 Jan 2021, 20:15:48 UTC

In that case, this thread is now locked.
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