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Profile Dave Jackson
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Message 63219 - Posted: 30 Dec 2020, 10:38:47 UTC - in response to Message 63218.  

If you have so many threads idle why do you not try to run a Virtual Machine with Linux as the OS? Take advantage of best of both the worlds.


So much easier to install WINE on Linux and do it that way around. but then I don't do gaming a lot of which requires Windows in full rather than WINE.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63220 - Posted: 30 Dec 2020, 16:50:50 UTC - in response to Message 63219.  

If you have so many threads idle why do you not try to run a Virtual Machine with Linux as the OS? Take advantage of best of both the worlds.


So much easier to install WINE on Linux and do it that way around. but then I don't do gaming a lot of which requires Windows in full rather than WINE.
Because I hate the Linux interface, and because I'm in several Boinc projects, I'm happy to do other projects when Weather at Home hasn't got tasks. At the moment the other cores are doing Africa Rainfall at WCG, and the 4 GPUs are doing Primegrid. They should be doing Milkyway and Einstein, but I got carried away overtaking everyone on the Primegrid stats.
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Profile Dave Jackson
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Message 63221 - Posted: 30 Dec 2020, 17:04:03 UTC

Because I hate the Linux interface, and because I'm in several Boinc projects, I'm happy to do other projects when Weather at Home hasn't got tasks. At the moment the other cores are doing Africa Rainfall at WCG, and the 4 GPUs are doing Primegrid. They should be doing Milkyway and Einstein, but I got carried away overtaking everyone on the Primegrid stats.


Fair enough. I personally hate the windows interface. If that was the only reason there are instructions out there to make the Linux interface virtually identical to the Windows or the Mac one if it comes to that but it seemed too much faff to me when there is such a range of desktop environments to be used with Linux that it should be possible to find one that suits.
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Message 63222 - Posted: 30 Dec 2020, 17:24:39 UTC - in response to Message 63221.  

Because I hate the Linux interface, and because I'm in several Boinc projects, I'm happy to do other projects when Weather at Home hasn't got tasks. At the moment the other cores are doing Africa Rainfall at WCG, and the 4 GPUs are doing Primegrid. They should be doing Milkyway and Einstein, but I got carried away overtaking everyone on the Primegrid stats.


Fair enough. I personally hate the windows interface. If that was the only reason there are instructions out there to make the Linux interface virtually identical to the Windows or the Mac one if it comes to that but it seemed too much faff to me when there is such a range of desktop environments to be used with Linux that it should be possible to find one that suits.
It's not the interface per se, but the whole way the OS works. Even installing a program requires faffing about giving things permission to execute. It's too locked down for my liking. I literally could not get a program to install on Linux, even using the command line, I had to use some kind of install manager that looked similar to Google Play on Android. I think the final straw was the command line not seeing a program in the current directory without me prefixing with ./ I class that as exceedingly unintuitive bad programming and won't be using it again.
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lazlo_vii

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Message 63223 - Posted: 30 Dec 2020, 20:27:01 UTC - in response to Message 63222.  

Fair enough. I personally hate the windows interface. If that was the only reason there are instructions out there to make the Linux interface virtually identical to the Windows or the Mac one if it comes to that but it seemed too much faff to me when there is such a range of desktop environments to be used with Linux that it should be possible to find one that suits.
It's not the interface per se, but the whole way the OS works. Even installing a program requires faffing about giving things permission to execute. It's too locked down for my liking. I literally could not get a program to install on Linux, even using the command line, I had to use some kind of install manager that looked similar to Google Play on Android. I think the final straw was the command line not seeing a program in the current directory without me prefixing with ./ I class that as exceedingly unintuitive bad programming and won't be using it again.[/quote]

http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/unix-koans/two_paths.html
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KAMasud

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Message 63226 - Posted: 31 Dec 2020, 2:33:07 UTC - in response to Message 63220.  

If you have so many threads idle why do you not try to run a Virtual Machine with Linux as the OS? Take advantage of best of both the worlds.


So much easier to install WINE on Linux and do it that way around. but then I don't do gaming a lot of which requires Windows in full rather than WINE.
Because I hate the Linux interface, and because I'm in several Boinc projects, I'm happy to do other projects when Weather at Home hasn't got tasks. At the moment the other cores are doing Africa Rainfall at WCG, and the 4 GPUs are doing Primegrid. They should be doing Milkyway and Einstein, but I got carried away overtaking everyone on the Primegrid stats.

------------------------------------------
Running Linux inside a Virtual Box does not cut down your options of doing other projects plus you can switch off the Virtual Box. You decide how many threads you want to give to the Box. For example, if you have 24 threads you can give the Box two and leave the rest for other projects. This way these four thousand odd Linux WU's will feel like manna from heaven. I am also a Windows operator but lack of Windows WU's was driving me nuts. I have twenty-four threads out of which six only I have handed to the Box.
Les advised Linus Mint, Windows type interface and light on system resources. I run three instances of Mint and one of Zorin. Zorin is faster in some ways and more Windows-like interface but heavy on system resources. Also, I know that someday Windows will go the way of the Dodo. Might as well raise my comfort level with Linux.
Like it, love it or lump it that is how the system works and the rest of the projects also run on Linux. CPDN makes a song and dance about the fact but none of the other projects has refused to run on Linux.
Download the Box directly from Oracle. Boinc for some reason lags one generation behind the current.
Hope you join us Windows users like a Willow tree and bend with the storm or remain stuck in your current situation like an Oak and break in the next storm.
------------------------------------
Thinking of buying an older generation of i7 and running WINE on Linux. Might as well have fun.
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Alex Plantema

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Message 63227 - Posted: 31 Dec 2020, 13:12:18 UTC - in response to Message 63223.  

I think the final straw was the command line not seeing a program in the current directory without me prefixing with ./ I class that as exceedingly unintuitive bad programming and won't be using it again.
./ is only needed when you're logged in as root. It isn't bad programming. It is a protection against users who put an executable with the same name as a system command into their folders. If there are no other users you can change the search path.
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Profile Dave Jackson
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Message 63228 - Posted: 31 Dec 2020, 13:40:35 UTC - in response to Message 63227.  

./ is only needed when you're logged in as root. It isn't bad programming. It is a protection against users who put an executable with the same name as a system command into their folders. If there are no other users you can change the search path.


I think the biggest problem is when you use more than one operating system at once. At work before I took early retirement from the NHS I used Windows there and Linux at home and that carried on for over 12 years. Those like myself who choose Linux for whatever reason over the years learn all these little differences. Personally I like the fact that even out of the box my system is far more secure than any but the most recent default Windows installations. Almost inevitably, a system designed to be more secure is going to require more knowledge of it to work effectively for the user.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63229 - Posted: 31 Dec 2020, 16:33:20 UTC - in response to Message 63223.  

I think the final straw was the command line not seeing a program in the current directory without me prefixing with ./ I class that as exceedingly unintuitive bad programming and won't be using it again.
http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/unix-koans/two_paths.html
I only got a C in English Literature, you'll have to explain what you mean. And you arsed up your quoting.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63230 - Posted: 31 Dec 2020, 16:41:53 UTC - in response to Message 63226.  

Running Linux inside a Virtual Box does not cut down your options of doing other projects plus you can switch off the Virtual Box.
What I meant was there's no need for me to go to the hassle of using Linux since I have a huge amount of work that I can do for Windows-able projects when CPDN has none available.

I have twenty-four threads out of which six only I have handed to the Box.
Pah! I have 90. 5 24-cores, 1 6-core, and 3 4-cores. Plus a 4 and 2 core Android.

Also, I know that someday Windows will go the way of the Dodo. Might as well raise my comfort level with Linux.
That will only happen when Linux is user friendly, most people don't want to know much about computers to be able to use them. I don't want to understand how microwave radiation works when I set the timer on my microwave oven.

Like it, love it or lump it that is how the system works and the rest of the projects also run on Linux. CPDN makes a song and dance about the fact but none of the other projects has refused to run on Linux.
The stats for this very project show that most users run Windows. Pretty daft to exclude them.

Download the Box directly from Oracle. Boinc for some reason lags one generation behind the current.
Boinc staff are even more stubborn than CPDN staff. First thing I do after installing Boinc on any machine is install VB from their own site, and the extensions. As for the scheduler in Boinc [tears hair out].

Hope you join us Windows users like a Willow tree and bend with the storm or remain stuck in your current situation like an Oak and break in the next storm.
Er what? Too philosophical for me to understand.

Thinking of buying an older generation of i7 and running WINE on Linux. Might as well have fun.
I used to get old cheap 2nd hand CPUs, then I realised a new AMD Ryzen 3900XT gives the same processing speed per dollar as some old crap does, but uses less electricity and takes up less space than the equivaleent power of several older ones. Plus it's better for games.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63231 - Posted: 31 Dec 2020, 16:44:14 UTC - in response to Message 63227.  

I think the final straw was the command line not seeing a program in the current directory without me prefixing with ./ I class that as exceedingly unintuitive bad programming and won't be using it again.
./ is only needed when you're logged in as root. It isn't bad programming. It is a protection against users who put an executable with the same name as a system command into their folders.
Maybe they wanted to? What if you want to override something?

And It's very stupid indeed. And the wrong way round - why protect root users instead of "normal" ones? It's the normal ones that will screw up.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63232 - Posted: 31 Dec 2020, 16:49:10 UTC - in response to Message 63228.  

I think the biggest problem is when you use more than one operating system at once. At work before I took early retirement from the NHS I used Windows there and Linux at home and that carried on for over 12 years. Those like myself who choose Linux for whatever reason over the years learn all these little differences.
I've been in tech support for 11 years and used Linux, Mac, and Windows. That's why I use Windows, I've seen how horrid the other two are. Macs are designed for kids, Linux is designed for geeks. Windows is a happy medium for normal everyday folk.

Personally I like the fact that even out of the box my system is far more secure than any but the most recent default Windows installations. Almost inevitably, a system designed to be more secure is going to require more knowledge of it to work effectively for the user.
I've never had a problem with Windows security. And I don't want over the top security at the cost of usability. Which is why I don't use a car alarm or a burglar alarm or a smoke alarm. 99% false positives.

P.S. the NHS needs deleting. £350 of tax per month from the average person whether we like it or not, and they don't provide a decent service. They almost just killed my father due to negligence. In the USA that doctor would get jailed. But not for "jobs for the boys" government workers.
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Message 63233 - Posted: 31 Dec 2020, 17:12:21 UTC

why protect root users instead of "normal" ones? It's the normal ones that will screw up.


You'd probably want to sandbox regular users, so they don't do system wide damage.


Macs are designed for kids, Linux is designed for geeks. Windows is a happy medium for normal everyday folk.


While I agree on this most of the way, I think some Linux distros have come a long way to make them easy to use, for a regular user. A regular user also often don't know how to install windows applications, or configure Windows if things break.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63234 - Posted: 31 Dec 2020, 17:33:41 UTC - in response to Message 63233.  

why protect root users instead of "normal" ones? It's the normal ones that will screw up.
You'd probably want to sandbox regular users, so they don't do system wide damage.
Nonsense, I don't know anyone without admin rights on their Windows machine, and they don't break them even if they know nothing about computers.

Macs are designed for kids, Linux is designed for geeks. Windows is a happy medium for normal everyday folk.
While I agree on this most of the way, I think some Linux distros have come a long way to make them easy to use, for a regular user.
They look a bit nicer, but are no easier to use.

A regular user also often don't know how to install windows applications, or configure Windows if things break.
Installing on Windows consists of clicking the link in your browser, then double clicking the file you have downloaded. Linux is about 10 times as many steps.
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KAMasud

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Message 63240 - Posted: 1 Jan 2021, 17:04:42 UTC

Yaaa! I have completed my first Linux WU in a Virtual Box. Now I can get serious.
New distros are quite a user friendly and look and smell just like Windows but you do need a present mind. O' Well. some of us are getting too long in the tooth to learn new tricks.
Over and out.
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Profile Dave Jackson
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Message 63241 - Posted: 1 Jan 2021, 17:30:39 UTC

P.S. the NHS needs deleting. £350 of tax per month from the average person whether we like it or not, and they don't provide a decent service. They almost just killed my father due to negligence. In the USA that doctor would get jailed. But not for "jobs for the boys" government workers.


Sued perhaps, not sent to jail in most cases. And the average cost of insurance paid in the US is over 5 times that £350 of tax/month.

I've never had a problem with Windows security. And I don't want over the top security at the cost of usability. Which is why I don't use a car alarm or a burglar alarm or a smoke alarm. 99% false positives.


Both in the NHS and elsewhere, I have seen many machines rendered inaccessible to users due to viruses and other Windows problems. I have yet to encounter a virus problem on a Linux machine.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63242 - Posted: 1 Jan 2021, 18:06:29 UTC - in response to Message 63241.  

Sued perhaps, not sent to jail in most cases. And the average cost of insurance paid in the US is over 5 times that £350 of tax/month.
I very much doubt many Americans could afford almost 2K a month. And AFAIK most have insurance. And of course they get treated and cured, instead of shoved on a never ending waiting list. And the most important thing, you can decide your level of cover, or lack of cover if you want to save money / take a risk / have huge savings.

Both in the NHS and elsewhere, I have seen many machines rendered inaccessible to users due to viruses and other Windows problems. I have yet to encounter a virus problem on a Linux machine.
Then those machines were not looked after. When I worked at a University there was a virus before I was in control of things. None in the 6 years I worked there.

Were you in the English or Scottish NHS? If Scottish you might know some of my family.
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Alex Plantema

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Message 63246 - Posted: 2 Jan 2021, 15:13:11 UTC - in response to Message 63231.  

And It's very stupid indeed. And the wrong way round - why protect root users instead of "normal" ones? It's the normal ones that will screw up.
Normal users don't need it because they cannot access other user's folders.
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Peter Hucker

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Message 63249 - Posted: 2 Jan 2021, 18:09:42 UTC - in response to Message 63246.  

And It's very stupid indeed. And the wrong way round - why protect root users instead of "normal" ones? It's the normal ones that will screw up.
Normal users don't need it because they cannot access other user's folders.
People accessing other people's folders should know what they're doing anyway?
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Message 63250 - Posted: 2 Jan 2021, 20:42:00 UTC - in response to Message 63249.  

People accessing other people's folders should know what they're doing anyway?


If all the "shoulds" did, things would be very different.
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