climateprediction.net home page
New work Discussion

New work Discussion

Message boards : Number crunching : New work Discussion
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 . . . 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · Next

AuthorMessage
Profile Iain Inglis
Volunteer moderator

Send message
Joined: 16 Jan 10
Posts: 1019
Credit: 5,511,676
RAC: 2,196
Message 62457 - Posted: 22 May 2020, 10:00:05 UTC - in response to Message 62454.  

As if by magic, New Work Announcements - so the RAC decay is a problem for another day.

Though only for the computers that managed to grab some of them. ;)

... another 3150. Jump in!
ID: 62457 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
pj
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 15 Dec 12
Posts: 8
Credit: 519,068
RAC: 0
Message 62458 - Posted: 22 May 2020, 12:02:46 UTC - in response to Message 62449.  

Really don't understand the concern about "no posting" with a low RAC.
I'm a Mac user and the last job I was able to work on was in March, 2019. My RAC is 0.00 and yet I am still able to post...
ID: 62458 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
KAMasud

Send message
Joined: 6 Oct 06
Posts: 46
Credit: 1,938,820
RAC: 5,207
Message 62460 - Posted: 22 May 2020, 14:08:52 UTC - in response to Message 62161.  

Yes as long as they get "their results".... of course if the 3000 WU's were spread 2 per system across the available Windows systems the researchers would get their 3000 WU's back faster than waiting on fewer systems with huge queued stacks of WU's waiting on long due dates.

IMHO

Bill F



I do not agree with this statement " huge queued stacks of WU's waiting on long due dates". Long due dates besides the point, how many cores a machine has is also not much of a deciding point. Store at least ___days work is set at ten and store additional work is also set at ten days of work maximum. So, how many WU's a machine gets is still a self-limiting factor. I have a twelve thread machine which gets twenty-four WU's max. They report back pretty much at the expected time, within one month.

So, where exactly are these ' huge queued stacks of WU's waiting on long due dates" sitting and sitting they are somewhere. In the old day's we used to squirrel away WU's on floppies or alternative media. Is this still going on?
Then there are crashed hard drives which take WU's with them to the grave but they still get reported.
ID: 62460 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Bryn Mawr

Send message
Joined: 28 Jul 19
Posts: 35
Credit: 1,334,645
RAC: 234
Message 62461 - Posted: 22 May 2020, 14:17:59 UTC - in response to Message 62460.  

Yes as long as they get "their results".... of course if the 3000 WU's were spread 2 per system across the available Windows systems the researchers would get their 3000 WU's back faster than waiting on fewer systems with huge queued stacks of WU's waiting on long due dates.

IMHO

Bill F



I do not agree with this statement " huge queued stacks of WU's waiting on long due dates". Long due dates besides the point, how many cores a machine has is also not much of a deciding point. Store at least ___days work is set at ten and store additional work is also set at ten days of work maximum. So, how many WU's a machine gets is still a self-limiting factor. I have a twelve thread machine which gets twenty-four WU's max. They report back pretty much at the expected time, within one month.

So, where exactly are these ' huge queued stacks of WU's waiting on long due dates" sitting and sitting they are somewhere. In the old day's we used to squirrel away WU's on floppies or alternative media. Is this still going on?
Then there are crashed hard drives which take WU's with them to the grave but they still get reported.


So you have 12 WUs your working on and 12 queued and the results will be back in a month. How much better if you have 12 WUs and someone else has 12 WUs and the results get back in a fortnight.

The queued stacks of WUs tend to be systems where they have, say, 12 cores, download 24 WUs but then only allow 2 WUs to run concurrently alongside their other projects.
ID: 62461 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Dave Jackson
Volunteer moderator

Send message
Joined: 15 May 09
Posts: 2739
Credit: 3,394,851
RAC: 1,929
Message 62462 - Posted: 22 May 2020, 15:23:43 UTC - in response to Message 62461.  

Yes as long as they get "their results".... of course if the 3000 WU's were spread 2 per system across the available Windows systems the researchers would get their 3000 WU's back faster than waiting on fewer systems with huge queued stacks of WU's waiting on long due dates.

IMHO

Bill F



I do not agree with this statement " huge queued stacks of WU's waiting on long due dates". Long due dates besides the point, how many cores a machine has is also not much of a deciding point. Store at least ___days work is set at ten and store additional work is also set at ten days of work maximum. So, how many WU's a machine gets is still a self-limiting factor. I have a twelve thread machine which gets twenty-four WU's max. They report back pretty much at the expected time, within one month.

So, where exactly are these ' huge queued stacks of WU's waiting on long due dates" sitting and sitting they are somewhere. In the old day's we used to squirrel away WU's on floppies or alternative media. Is this still going on?
Then there are crashed hard drives which take WU's with them to the grave but they still get reported.


So you have 12 WUs your working on and 12 queued and the results will be back in a month. How much better if you have 12 WUs and someone else has 12 WUs and the results get back in a fortnight.

The queued stacks of WUs tend to be systems where they have, say, 12 cores, download 24 WUs but then only allow 2 WUs to run concurrently alongside their other projects.


The real problem is machines that are only switched on for a couple of hours a day and grab lots of tasks. We still see tasks returning which take over a year to be completed! I for one don't really mind if a task takes two weeks or a month to complete. But a year may be after the researcher's deadline for submitting their PhD!
ID: 62462 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Jim1348

Send message
Joined: 15 Jan 06
Posts: 503
Credit: 22,294,062
RAC: 433
Message 62463 - Posted: 22 May 2020, 15:26:44 UTC - in response to Message 62460.  

So, where exactly are these ' huge queued stacks of WU's waiting on long due dates" sitting and sitting they are somewhere. In the old day's we used to squirrel away WU's on floppies or alternative media. Is this still going on?

I see a lot of suspends in the results files. It leads to a lot of errors, and lengthens the return time even for the ones that survive.
I assume that they are being done on laptops, which is the wrong place to do them I believe.

Better a reasonable time limit of 60 days (or 30 is OK with me).
ID: 62463 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile JIM

Send message
Joined: 31 Dec 07
Posts: 1123
Credit: 20,460,788
RAC: 2,008
Message 62464 - Posted: 22 May 2020, 16:26:54 UTC - in response to Message 62463.  
Last modified: 22 May 2020, 16:29:06 UTC

[
I assume that they are being done on laptops, which is the wrong place to do them I believe.

Better a reasonable time limit of 60 days (or 30 is OK with me).


I STRONGLY DISAGREE! I have been running CPDN (almost exclusively) for more than 10 years, since the days of the BBC experiment. I have over 20,000,000 credits. All of this work has been run exclusively on laptops.
ID: 62464 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Harri Liljeroos
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Dec 05
Posts: 79
Credit: 11,385,868
RAC: 973
Message 62465 - Posted: 22 May 2020, 17:56:21 UTC - in response to Message 62458.  

Really don't understand the concern about "no posting" with a low RAC.
I'm a Mac user and the last job I was able to work on was in March, 2019. My RAC is 0.00 and yet I am still able to post...

Good that this has been taken care of. Boinc servers have had as a default rule to not allow to post in forums unless you have RAC > 1. That was to prevent junk posts from users who are not interested to do their bit for the project.
ID: 62465 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Dave Jackson
Volunteer moderator

Send message
Joined: 15 May 09
Posts: 2739
Credit: 3,394,851
RAC: 1,929
Message 62468 - Posted: 22 May 2020, 19:03:37 UTC - in response to Message 62465.  

Good that this has been taken care of. Boinc servers have had as a default rule to not allow to post in forums unless you have RAC > 1. That was to prevent junk posts from users who are not interested to do their bit for the project.


I am not sure if CPDN has ever had this restriction since I started. I know it is the default in the BOINC server code but because so many people had trouble installing the 32bit libs in Linux it didn't make sense to stop people posting globally.
ID: 62468 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Jim1348

Send message
Joined: 15 Jan 06
Posts: 503
Credit: 22,294,062
RAC: 433
Message 62469 - Posted: 22 May 2020, 19:05:21 UTC - in response to Message 62464.  

I STRONGLY DISAGREE! I have been running CPDN (almost exclusively) for more than 10 years, since the days of the BBC experiment. I have over 20,000,000 credits. All of this work has been run exclusively on laptops.

The time limit is the point, and also the error rate. If you can get past those, you can do them however you want insofar as I am concerned.
But on Windows, most of the errors I see are for too many suspends. I don't think that is from the desktops.
ID: 62469 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
lazlo_vii

Send message
Joined: 11 Dec 19
Posts: 70
Credit: 1,998,948
RAC: 489
Message 62471 - Posted: 22 May 2020, 19:41:39 UTC - in response to Message 62469.  
Last modified: 22 May 2020, 19:42:25 UTC

I STRONGLY DISAGREE! I have been running CPDN (almost exclusively) for more than 10 years, since the days of the BBC experiment. I have over 20,000,000 credits. All of this work has been run exclusively on laptops.

The time limit is the point, and also the error rate. If you can get past those, you can do them however you want insofar as I am concerned.
But on Windows, most of the errors I see are for too many suspends. I don't think that is from the desktops.


I think that errors on suspended tasks are far more likely if the suspended tasks are removed from RAM. This is not the default behavior for the BOINC client and must be changed by the user. If the tasks stay in RAM then I would guess (and it's purely a guess) that the error rate drops by at least an order of magnitude.

To find out if most of suspension failures happen on desktops or laptops someone would really need to do a deep dive and look at the machines' specs to see if they are using CPU's designed for desktops or laptops. I think using that metric would give a margin of error of less than five percent.

As far as storing work for later goes, I don't bother with it. I have always believed that a fast turn around is more important to science than a slow, steady trickle of results no matter what projects you are crunching for. No matter what is being modeled faster returns will mean a faster evolution of the models. Getting better models designed means getting real world applications faster.
ID: 62471 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Jim1348

Send message
Joined: 15 Jan 06
Posts: 503
Credit: 22,294,062
RAC: 433
Message 62473 - Posted: 22 May 2020, 20:12:04 UTC - in response to Message 62471.  

As far as storing work for later goes, I don't bother with it. I have always believed that a fast turn around is more important to science than a slow, steady trickle of results no matter what projects you are crunching for. No matter what is being modeled faster returns will mean a faster evolution of the models. Getting better models designed means getting real world applications faster.

Yes, I would think so too. I sometimes wonder why the scientists have not insisted that the deadline be shortened. This is not a time or place for tradition. We are up against the wall on time.
ID: 62473 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Les Bayliss
Volunteer moderator

Send message
Joined: 5 Sep 04
Posts: 7233
Credit: 23,154,247
RAC: 170
Message 62475 - Posted: 22 May 2020, 20:46:49 UTC - in response to Message 62473.  

They do know, and we've talked about it.
The current solution is to simply close the batch when enough results have been returned.
ID: 62475 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Jim1348

Send message
Joined: 15 Jan 06
Posts: 503
Credit: 22,294,062
RAC: 433
Message 62477 - Posted: 22 May 2020, 21:10:05 UTC - in response to Message 62475.  

OK, if it works for them, it works for me.
I see that the current batch of wah2 sold out quickly; I got two.
ID: 62477 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Bill F
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 17 Jan 09
Posts: 74
Credit: 978,164
RAC: 374
Message 62480 - Posted: 22 May 2020, 23:30:16 UTC
Last modified: 22 May 2020, 23:31:00 UTC

Well I have two systems with enough power to do a good job. And I happen to have gotten 1 WU on the better of the two. It has been a very long time without any Windows releases that had any volume so I will not stir the political pot.

Bill F
Dallas TX
ID: 62480 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Dave Jackson
Volunteer moderator

Send message
Joined: 15 May 09
Posts: 2739
Credit: 3,394,851
RAC: 1,929
Message 62481 - Posted: 23 May 2020, 6:12:52 UTC - in response to Message 62469.  

I STRONGLY DISAGREE! I have been running CPDN (almost exclusively) for more than 10 years, since the days of the BBC experiment. I have over 20,000,000 credits. All of this work has been run exclusively on laptops.

The time limit is the point, and also the error rate. If you can get past those, you can do them however you want insofar as I am concerned.
But on Windows, most of the errors I see are for too many suspends. I don't think that is from the desktops.


Two machines is hardly statistically significant but I have one desktop and one laptop, however I see no difference in the error rates between the two. I do though vary the number of cores according to time of year/temperature. The machine tells me it is still OK running all 4 cores on the laptop in summer but even if true the fan noise is excessive on the laptop so I cut it to either 75% or 50%. (two or three cores out of four.) Two cores gives about the same level of fan noise at 25C that four give at about 17C ambient.

I don't know if I would get more errors running the laptop hotter or just wear it out more quickly.
ID: 62481 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Jim1348

Send message
Joined: 15 Jan 06
Posts: 503
Credit: 22,294,062
RAC: 433
Message 62482 - Posted: 23 May 2020, 12:53:08 UTC - in response to Message 62481.  

Two machines is hardly statistically significant but I have one desktop and one laptop, however I see no difference in the error rates between the two.

I look at the errors on the other machines for work units that I complete successfully.
The difference is striking.
ID: 62482 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile JIM

Send message
Joined: 31 Dec 07
Posts: 1123
Credit: 20,460,788
RAC: 2,008
Message 62557 - Posted: 8 Jun 2020, 2:34:45 UTC

Any sings of new Windows work? I've just about finished those few from 2 weeks ago.
ID: 62557 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Les Bayliss
Volunteer moderator

Send message
Joined: 5 Sep 04
Posts: 7233
Credit: 23,154,247
RAC: 170
Message 62558 - Posted: 8 Jun 2020, 4:52:55 UTC - in response to Message 62557.  

No. No talk or testing about anything.
ID: 62558 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Dave Jackson
Volunteer moderator

Send message
Joined: 15 May 09
Posts: 2739
Credit: 3,394,851
RAC: 1,929
Message 62559 - Posted: 8 Jun 2020, 7:19:40 UTC - in response to Message 62558.  

No. No talk or testing about anything.


And last time there were no signs work was on the way so hints and testing work isn't always a good indicator. Sometimes it takes a long time to get from testing to main site, either just due to timetables or problems cropping up. Not always clear which even to those with access to a bit more information.
ID: 62559 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Previous · 1 . . . 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · Next

Message boards : Number crunching : New work Discussion

©2020 climateprediction.net