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Les Bayliss
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Message 53830 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 1:11:19 UTC - in response to Message 53828.  

I don't know the answer to that, but I doubt it.

The project has changed considerably since the early days, with all (I think), of the research being done outside of Oxford.

It's connection now with Oxford, is the BOINC side of things, being run as one of many research projects by the OeRC part of the Uni.
All of the servers, routers, etc, are part of some IT department or other, with commercial contracts for supply and maintenance. It's not a matter of getting a bit of money, and going to the nearest computer shop for a new HD.

And the data sets are now created by external research centres around the planet, who are also responsible for providing the huge amounts of storage for the results of their particular experiment. Along with the large ISP connections to that storage.

That donations page may be so old that it should be removed. I'll ask about it.


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Profile AL ADIM

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Message 53831 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 8:42:59 UTC

I lose -94,253
My team lose -53,967,043
Not nice...
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CoronaBorealis

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Message 53832 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 16:29:19 UTC - in response to Message 53817.  
Last modified: 27 Mar 2016, 16:29:47 UTC

I lose ~ 200,000 credits in 2016-3-25 and 2016-3-17.
I didn't see any of my credits returned.
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marmot

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Message 53833 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 16:48:18 UTC - in response to Message 53795.  

@Dave Jackson
As I said a few posts earlier, Andy thinks it is the pre-22011 credit that has gone, as you have been crunching since well before that it has hit you. If it isn't fixed soon, because of the weekend and public holidays, not much is likely to change till Tuesday.


I missed that. The amounts lost do seem to be about all the credit my old machine got in 2005-2008. Will see what happens later this week. My machines are focused on other projects now.

Are you all going to consider sending some kind of summary notification to our clients detailing what is the issue with credit so that people out there are updated on this issue?


@Iain Inglis

These WU are responsible for 70 to 95% of the power usage on any machine that they are run upon. It's not MARGINAL at all.


True enough, but in winter time you wont need to use the heaters so much, since the PC's heat your rooms :) And the research is valuable. I think it was marginal many years ago? Back when Athlon64's were the thing?

I read somewhere that a search on google uses as much electricity as a 60 watt light bulb does for 17 seconds.

Now back to topic :)

As an aside and not to divert the thread too greatly, the word "marginal" is sometimes used in marmot's sense of "small", but also means "at the margin" as in the expression "marginal cost". In addressing the question of 24/7 running, the word was used in the second sense and not the first: in effect, marmot argues that the marginal cost of running a CPDN model is "large" relative to the cost of the running an idle PC - that's actually a good thing, as it means the PC is efficient. However, it only produces a disagreement if "marginal" is allowed to have only one meaning, which it doesn't.


None of the included definitions, including that from economics, use "marginal" when the value talked about becomes 4 (6 hours of gaming vs 24 hours of BOINC) to 20 (100% vs 5% wattage at idle) times the original base cost wattages used by BOINC WU when run 100% of the time on 100% cores. BOINC energy usage overrides all other considerations and become the primary cost. But this isn't the topic of the thread, I just had to address a major fault of perception that seems common.
BOINC WU's are valuable but also the primary cost of electricity usage on computers running CPU/GPU intensive WU's.



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Profile astroWX
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Message 53834 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 19:36:30 UTC - in response to Message 53833.  

Are you all going to consider sending some kind of summary notification to our clients detailing what is the issue with credit so that people out there are updated on this issue?

Probably not. I suspect reverberations continue in CPDN halls and offices from earlier experience with that. A broadcast notification went out -- resulting in CPDN being listed as a spammer. It took a bit of doing to sort that out. The idea hasn't been entertained since, though it has been requested from time to time.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo
Greetings from coastal Washington state, the scenic US Pacific Northwest.
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BarryAZ

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Message 53835 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 20:01:07 UTC - in response to Message 53834.  
Last modified: 27 Mar 2016, 20:02:29 UTC

It seems the gap between those who work to moderate the forum with the actual community base and those directly involved with the research along with those involved with the software hardware support has widened a great deal over the 10 plus years I've done processing for Climate (I started back in the BBC days). I suspect there are other long term supporters who might also be in the same category.

The latest credit evaporation scenario sort of looks like something similar to the market crash of 2008.

In any event, for me, I suspect this particular event is the nail. I've other projects I work with a lot so it simply a case of redirection for me.

I will periodically check back to see if the researchers perceive a need to touch base with the processing community or if the hardware software folks see that need as well.

I do know this, the folks representing the project on the message boards are likely just as troubled by the progressive disconnect over the years. If it were not for their efforts (Les, a shout out to you in particular), I suspect I'd have abandoned this project years ago.
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Les Bayliss
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Message 53836 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 20:18:59 UTC - in response to Message 53835.  

Hi Barry

While you're crunching elsewhere, keep an eye out here; I suspect something will happen not too long after this looooong weekend is over.

I guess I can point out the obvious to everyone, by posting in News and announcements, but those who don't see it happen them selves, possibly long before I do, may also be those that don't have time to look at that thread. :(

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Les Bayliss
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Message 53837 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 20:27:31 UTC

Perhaps this is all just Karma, to balance out the temporary hitch a few years ago, when everyone got a huge bonus for a while.

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ed2353

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Message 53838 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 20:49:24 UTC - in response to Message 53837.  

Funny you should say that.

I've "lost" about 2 million credits myself, but since others have lost more - I've jumped up several places with my Top Computers total, and around 20 places with my Top Participants total.

For a few days I've reached positions I will never reach in real Computational Life.
Ed

PS Because I cannot start a new thread, I mention in passing that the afr50 batch seems to have a lot of Computation Errors.

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DJStarfox

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Message 53839 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 21:18:05 UTC

My total credit went from 1.2M to 666M (roughly half) recently. I don't know what happened.
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Les Bayliss
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Message 53840 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 21:33:40 UTC - in response to Message 53839.  

Hi DJ

The answer to that is now buried about 2.5 Kilometres down this thread.
Basically:
Server failure
Switched to slave server
Trickle_up files fell down a ravine
Looking for a way to rappel down to get them back

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Les Bayliss
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Message 53841 - Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 21:39:14 UTC
Last modified: 27 Mar 2016, 21:46:08 UTC

Hi Ed

Like you, I've jumped way up.
94 to 105 to 72
Breathing's a bit difficult way up here, but taking some photos of the scenery. :)

edit

Andy knows about the no-create problem, but the credits are currently getting attention.
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BarryAZ

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Message 53842 - Posted: 28 Mar 2016, 0:52:45 UTC - in response to Message 53836.  

Oh -- I will keep an eye out over here -- I figure to stop by almost daily -- if only to make sure that other participants don't try to assail the messenger <smile>
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tferr

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Message 53843 - Posted: 28 Mar 2016, 18:03:48 UTC

So, while it looks like my credits at the time were reinstated I do not believe it is showing my recent work. My RAC has stayed the exact number since everything was "fixed"

Thank you for all the work folks are putting into fixing this mess, just wanted to point out something I noticed in case it may help identify problems.

Keep on keepin on fellas
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Les Bayliss
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Message 53844 - Posted: 28 Mar 2016, 19:11:30 UTC - in response to Message 53843.  

The automatic scripts aren't running while the "problem" is fixed.

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Profile JohnMD

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Message 53845 - Posted: 28 Mar 2016, 19:20:47 UTC

About 98% of my credit here disappeared on the 24th. March - and yes, it was pre-2011 completed WU.
It compensates in part for a gift of around 700 thousand credits at Freehal many years ago in a similar attempt to 'rewrite lost history'.
Hey - even professionals make mistakes, and we're all just volunteers.
Win some, lose some...
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Lockleys

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Message 53846 - Posted: 28 Mar 2016, 21:55:30 UTC

Just think of the boost to self-achievement that will kick in when The Fix is completed and that wonderful, positive step function kicks in to the statistics graph! Almost as good as ???

That's only for the people who have carried on crunching while the credits script isn't working properly, of course. Those who went away won't get the dopamine.
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Message 53847 - Posted: 28 Mar 2016, 22:02:53 UTC

Hopefully they will get on with the fix now that we are passed the Weekend and Egg Salad Monday.
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jrapdx

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Message 53848 - Posted: 29 Mar 2016, 8:13:06 UTC

Reading all the comments it certainly looks like the "credit collapse" has gotten a lot of attention. Good thing it's not like bank credit or something, though of course that has happened.

I'm noticing that my CPDN credits haven't changed at all, not up or down in days. What's odd is that trickle uploads are going on, at least the task reports reflect the progress on the tasks quite in sync with BOINC manager on my systems. IOW the work has continued and apparently has been recorded by a server somewhere, at least I think that's the case.

It will be very good to have things working like they're supposed to, the credits are useful because re: serving as feedback that the crunched data isn't lost and probably getting to it's intended destination. I mean I can assume that's occurring since uploads continue, but it is slightly disconcerting that right now it's a matter of guesswork.

Interesting how nervous it's making people feel, like it's a risky situation, though really we individual crunchers out here don't actually have an awful lot at stake.
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Profile Dave Jackson
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Message 53849 - Posted: 29 Mar 2016, 8:23:23 UTC - in response to Message 53848.  

What's odd is that trickle uploads are going on


The trickles and zips all end up with the servers at whichever research organisation has paid to have Oxford manage the tasks via BOINC and the Met Office programs. As far as I know the only remaining problems are the credit script that allocates credit based on the trickles. The records to rebuild the credit are all still present and it is just a matter of sorting out the problems with the script and rebuilding the database from the slave. That and the problem with starting new posts on these boards which I assume is also related to the database issues.
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