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Why this forum, if the project team doesn\'t bother to go here?

Why this forum, if the project team doesn\'t bother to go here?

Message boards : Number crunching : Why this forum, if the project team doesn\'t bother to go here?
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Message 27020 - Posted: 23 Feb 2007, 8:28:44 UTC
Last modified: 23 Feb 2007, 8:29:52 UTC

First:
I think it was OK to remove the OT-posts from the thread about short WUs.

So instead of answering again in there I will start this new thread (to a post that should have been removed as well imho if removal would have been consistent).

Why is it that the developers have to be contacted by PM, and don\'t visit this forum? Isn\'t this forum on the project\'s own website?

First off, CPDN started on it\'s own without BOINC, so their original forums which people are encouraged to use, are the ones that are monitored more than these. These were added because BOINC is not only the software you run, but the online database that the project runs, so these forums are just an added (IMHO) nescience. Keeping up two forums is hard work, on a skeleton crew. Since they are more comfortable with their old forums, that\'s what they use the most.

So, if you look at things in perspective, they figured these forums would be watched / policed / maintained by the volunteers who are moderators, and they run the other ones.


There is no need for two fora.

Other projects have other fora, some only with a different layout (Einstein, Docking, QMC, Pirates at least), some with a complete different software (Simap, Spinhenge, WCG and perhaps more).

The folks @CPDN decided deliberately and on their own will to keep this forum up, so it\'s their duty to care about it. There is no need for any of us crunchers to go to the other fora as long as this here exists. The project team has no reason whatsoever to say they havn\'t heard about problems when they are mentioned here. That has to be sufficient, no PM or even a visit over there necessary.

Otherwise simply ditch this forum. I would not have a problem with it, I go to Simap and WCG as well, despite their otherness.
Grüße vom Sänger
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Message 27021 - Posted: 23 Feb 2007, 10:28:23 UTC - in response to Message 27020.  

Hi, I try to get around to all the boards, but as you\'ve seen, we have too many! Tolu & I were against this but the \"powers that be\" wanted separate boards. Plus we started as a non-BOINC project (before BOINC was publicly available), and had the old PHPbb boards to maintain, then this one, then they wanted a separate one for the BBC experiment. So I\'m afraid if I miss something I have to rely on one of the moderators to PM me (or Tolu or Milo) for our immediate attention.
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Message 27024 - Posted: 23 Feb 2007, 13:15:46 UTC
Last modified: 23 Feb 2007, 13:16:42 UTC

I really don\'t care about whether it\'s run by Boinc or phpBB, as long as it\'s only one forum for all, and not two separated, unconnected siblings.

If you want to keep the phpBB one (and I see a lot of merit with that), I suggest close this one. I dunno if and how it\'s possible to keep the stuff from here over there. For me as a plain puter user both are just databases with text fields, somehow linked, and so I presume it should be possible to include at least the content, perhaps not the interlinkage, over there in a special part \"Old Boinc\", and be it as read only.

But this two separate fora are at least suboptimal, the probability of information going nowhere ist imho to big.

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Message 27027 - Posted: 23 Feb 2007, 15:09:19 UTC - in response to Message 27024.  

I agree, it is only possible because we have such great moderators across all the boards that keep us informed when something big comes up like a server down, credits messed up, etc.
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Message 27033 - Posted: 23 Feb 2007, 16:38:20 UTC

While I did write this on the other thread, I\'ll repeat it here in case it got deleted:
I understand perfectly well that the developers can\'t overlook two forums at once, but please write so on the forum selecting page, to avoid misunderstandings :-)
Proud owner of the CPDN Wow-Mug!
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Message 27109 - Posted: 27 Feb 2007, 20:17:07 UTC - in response to Message 27024.  

I really don\'t care about whether it\'s run by Boinc or phpBB, as long as it\'s only one forum for all, and not two separated, unconnected siblings.
...


Only two? I count more than that! :-)

* The main phpBB forum (shared between all climate projects)
* CPDN Boinc forum
* BBC Boinc forum
* CPDN SAP Boinc forum
* Beta forum
* Spinup forum (project now wiped)

I'm a volunteer and my views are my own.
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Message 27112 - Posted: 27 Feb 2007, 20:23:17 UTC - in response to Message 27109.  

I really don\'t care about whether it\'s run by Boinc or phpBB, as long as it\'s only one forum for all, and not two separated, unconnected siblings.
...


Only two? I count more than that! :-)

* The main phpBB forum (shared between all climate projects)
* CPDN Boinc forum
* BBC Boinc forum
* CPDN SAP Boinc forum
* Beta forum
* Spinup forum (project now wiped)

The more an argument to close this one.

A sub-forum for each sub-project over there, one for overall technical issues, one for science, one for smalltalk, that\'s it.

I wonder why they still have those other ones, but as long as they keep them open, it\'s their duty to maintain them properly.
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Message 27113 - Posted: 27 Feb 2007, 20:57:49 UTC
Last modified: 27 Feb 2007, 21:06:39 UTC

The BBC forum had to be set up separately because the BBC insisted on having it. At some point it will be closed down, I\'d guess before the end of 2007. Then we\'ll be left with two main forums - this one and the php.

There is no way the php forum could be eliminated as it has so many advantages:

*allows access to email addresses

*allows private messaging

*the admins and mods can rearrange the sections and start new ones depending on what the project and members need

*allows search of memberlist

*has allowed creation of a hidden section for admins and moderators to discuss things

But it also has disadvantages:

*php attracts spammers

*you can\'t click on a poster\'s name and get to the person\'s workunits and results

*the php server isn\'t under the direct control of cpdn, at least at the moment - it\'s at the Open University in Milton Keynes, whereas cpdn is at Oxford Uni

*the php forum has twice been out of action for extended periods and all cpdn members needed to come to this forum to be able to post

The advantages show, I think, why the php forum must remain. The last two disadvantages show why this forum must also remain.

We all know that Carl, Tolu and Milo cannot possibly look at all the threads regularly and still do their job in Oxford. If we only had one forum, this would still be the case. The moderators know this and we make sure we visit all 3 main forums regularly; it will be easier for us when there are only two.

On all three forums there are lots of very knowledgeable and experienced members who also help. Every day and for years. The project doesn\'t just depend on admins and mods; there are large numbers of helpers. It\'s very useful if regular posters on this forum can also register on the php (preferably with the same name!) so that if we do ever need to contact a member privately, we can do so. And vice-versa, of course. To use the advantages of both forums is the most flexible solution.

I consider that ALL three main forums, which are what concern us here, are maintained properly.
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Message 27124 - Posted: 28 Feb 2007, 10:21:42 UTC
Last modified: 28 Feb 2007, 10:39:25 UTC

I have a lot of sympathy with Saenger\'s point of view, it\'s really hard to keep an eye on everything - we have a very active team forum too so I\'m currently trying to keep up with 4 different forums/fora for climate change!

But thanks for the explanation, Mo, it makes a lot more sense now. And as always I think the moderators do an amazing job, it can\'t be easy.

Regards to both, MM
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Message 27260 - Posted: 10 Mar 2007, 4:34:40 UTC - in response to Message 27113.  

The BBC forum had to be set up separately because the BBC insisted on having it. At some point it will be closed down, I\'d guess before the end of 2007. Then we\'ll be left with two main forums - this one and the php.

There is no way the php forum could be eliminated as it has so many advantages:

*allows access to email addresses

*allows private messaging

*the admins and mods can rearrange the sections and start new ones depending on what the project and members need

*allows search of memberlist

*has allowed creation of a hidden section for admins and moderators to discuss things

But it also has disadvantages:

*php attracts spammers

*you can\'t click on a poster\'s name and get to the person\'s workunits and results

*the php server isn\'t under the direct control of cpdn, at least at the moment - it\'s at the Open University in Milton Keynes, whereas cpdn is at Oxford Uni

*the php forum has twice been out of action for extended periods and all cpdn members needed to come to this forum to be able to post

The advantages show, I think, why the php forum must remain. The last two disadvantages show why this forum must also remain.

We all know that Carl, Tolu and Milo cannot possibly look at all the threads regularly and still do their job in Oxford. If we only had one forum, this would still be the case. The moderators know this and we make sure we visit all 3 main forums regularly; it will be easier for us when there are only two.

On all three forums there are lots of very knowledgeable and experienced members who also help. Every day and for years. The project doesn\'t just depend on admins and mods; there are large numbers of helpers. It\'s very useful if regular posters on this forum can also register on the php (preferably with the same name!) so that if we do ever need to contact a member privately, we can do so. And vice-versa, of course. To use the advantages of both forums is the most flexible solution.

I consider that ALL three main forums, which are what concern us here, are maintained properly.

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Message 27261 - Posted: 10 Mar 2007, 4:35:27 UTC - in response to Message 27113.  
Last modified: 10 Mar 2007, 4:47:17 UTC

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Message 27265 - Posted: 10 Mar 2007, 11:24:07 UTC - in response to Message 27260.  
Last modified: 10 Mar 2007, 11:26:42 UTC

There is no way the php forum could be eliminated as it has so many advantages:

*allows access to email addresses

Not sure what the point of that is, but for to give moderators a direct option to email someone. As they are the only ones who can see the email address at all times, even when you set it \"hidden\" in your preferences.

*allows private messaging

This could be easily build in into the BOINC forums and has at one point been done by Rytis of Primegrid. (As were emoticons for that matter)

*the admins and mods can rearrange the sections and start new ones depending on what the project and members need

Last I checked, only administrators can do so on a phpBB forum. Same on BOINC forums.

But on the other hand, the newer BOINC forums allow many options more than just delete post and move post that these probably allow.

*allows search of memberlist

In a way, you can search the BOINC membership list as well.

*has allowed creation of a hidden section for admins and moderators to discuss things

This can also be done on the BOINC forums and is in use on many projects.

But it also has disadvantages:
*php attracts spammers

The BOINC forums are also run over by spammers and spambots. (Therefore, never leave your email address in clear text in any forums)

(and the thing that still doesn\'t work here is the option to Jump to the newest post... or heaven forbid, even jump to my own post that I just posted... so you forgot one thing in your list...)

*phpBB allows for people to read the thread from the top to the bottom without too much hassle and allows to jump to the newest post by clicking on the \"newest post icon\"...
** BOINC forums allow that as well... if at least the preferences work!! ;-)
Jord.
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Message 27269 - Posted: 10 Mar 2007, 21:44:11 UTC


I\'d quite like to see the software for the Boinc forums dumped and replaced with phpBB hybridised with an interface into the Boinc database (one of the projects did this, the software used the boinc database as the registration database)


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Message 27287 - Posted: 12 Mar 2007, 3:34:03 UTC

I agree. If we had a forum with the advantages of both php and the boinc forums, it would be the best of most possible worlds.

Milo has said he\'ll look at what\'s causing the Jump to new posts forum option not to work on this forum. When he gets a chance.

He\'s fixed the problem of spambots registering on the php forum by adding a really tricky question to the registration process. Necessary because the spambot autosubmitter programs had cracked how to complete the visual verification eg this example

http://www.botmaster.net/more1/

I\'m deliberately not making that an active link, you\'ll have to copy and paste it. Heavens, the price has gone up quite a lot since I last looked even though spambots still can\'t answer questions.

If you want to test yourself and see whether you can do better than a very expensive program, now is the time to register on the php forum.

Anyway, for the time being at least the mods and admins don\'t know what to do with all the time freed up from deleting spammers and their spam posts.

While the Open Uni course is running, which their website shows will be the end of 2007 at the earliest, the php forum must be kept up and running so that the non-boinc course students running cpdn Classic have a forum.


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Message 27295 - Posted: 12 Mar 2007, 20:01:32 UTC

Milo says the server settings are correct for the \'Jump to new posts\' forum preference. So we\'ll have to wait for the next server upgrade for this option to work.
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Message 27296 - Posted: 12 Mar 2007, 22:48:30 UTC - in response to Message 27295.  

Thanks for that, Mo. :)
Jord.
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