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How forgiving would climate be to changing operating system mid-WU?

How forgiving would climate be to changing operating system mid-WU?

Message boards : Number crunching : How forgiving would climate be to changing operating system mid-WU?
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Nuadormrac
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Message 23080 - Posted: 9 Jun 2006, 21:24:30 UTC

My expectation is that if the comp details change, then WUs in general won\'t tend to be most forgiving, especially if the server has been getting trickles, and all of a sudden the reported machine is different...

OK, here\'s the thing. I\'ve got about 1,500 hours left on this one climate model and well Vista beta has just hit public release. I\'m sorta wanting to give the new version of Vista a look; though from prior experience (aka win3.1 to win95) I have learned (and the hard way in those days) that an upgrade install can be a really bad thing :eek: Which would mean a backup of the BOINC folder off to my USB HD and then format on the main partition...

Would climate gripe big time if all of a sudden it saw Windows Vista continuing to report in on a WU that was hitherto crunched by winXP Pro?
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Message 23081 - Posted: 9 Jun 2006, 21:38:03 UTC

Obviously, we have no direct experience of Vista but, if I recall correctly, there should be no problem switching between M$ OS. The limitation is trying to switch between apples and oranges, as WinXP & some Linux flavor.

It was between two XP systems but I recently moved a pair of CM Runs from a P4 3.0 to an A64 X2 4400+. Not a twitch from the Runs (unless Math differences caused a \'turn-key\' under the surface calm).

Make a backup and then uninstall boinc from the \'active\' directory. Move the \'active directory to Vista and re-install boinc. Should be that simple.

Please let us know how it turns out. There\'ll probably be many more making the switch when Vista Vaporware finally condenses.
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Greetings from coastal Washington state, the scenic US Pacific Northwest.
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Profile MikeMarsUK
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Message 23085 - Posted: 9 Jun 2006, 23:18:02 UTC

Vista should be in the same family as NT/XP etc, but there may always turn out to be some quirk which causes trouble, of course...
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Les Bayliss
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Message 23086 - Posted: 9 Jun 2006, 23:27:56 UTC

On the MS site about trying it, it says that once you\'ve loaded Vista there\'s no going back.
When I went from Win3.11 to Win95, I put in a hd tray, and used separate hds for each. And ended up using 3.11 more.
I don\'t have a tray n my current computer, but if I ever try Vista, unlikely for a long time, then I\'ll use a different hd.

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Message 23090 - Posted: 10 Jun 2006, 2:31:38 UTC

Well there is going back, if one does a format and reinstall from source media. Of course that means reinstalling one\'s apps...

I\'m still in the process of downloading (which looks to be taken a day given both a 4.01 GB download for the x86-64 version... Yeah, I know, winXP-64 had a dirth of driver support (and well a beta probably isn\'t as well supported), but I imagine that after the thing gets released with both 32 and 64-bit versions comming out at the same time, devs will focus on em both, as they\'ll have to make Vista drivers either way... There\'s also the issue that Intel\'s next x86 CPU (Conroe) will be 64-bit, so it won\'t be an AMD thing only wrt support.

Well, 32-bit BOINC should run just fine on it anyhow, so not anticipating a prob there... If the WUs themselves won\'t care much about new versions, guess I\'ll be putting it on sooner rather then latter. thx...
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Message 23091 - Posted: 10 Jun 2006, 4:16:52 UTC

There\'s a picture here of a \"Conroe\" chip and a quad core \"Kentsfield\".

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Message 23096 - Posted: 10 Jun 2006, 10:59:24 UTC

I had no trouble *running* BOINC on Win XP 64-bit nor Vista.
But installing, resp. attaching to the projects may be different issue.

On Linux, 64-bit version may try to download 64-bit app.
Issue of 32-bit app and 64-bit OS is being discussed on BOINC dev. list.
BOINC is not ready for 64-bit - at least in term of reporting 64-bit availability (both on OS and CPU level).

But once you get it running, transfering to another Win OS should be trouble free - 64-bit runs on WoW emulation (without effeciency impact).
There is no need for 64-bit BOINC core, but reporting 64-bit OS needs some handling, IMHO.
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Message 23129 - Posted: 12 Jun 2006, 21:35:02 UTC

Well, there could be a reason for a 64-bit version of BOINC in the future, if it means 64-bit science apps. Given that many of the calculations are going to be double precision floating point, 64-bit procs, with a 64-bit execution pipeline, can have an easier time hammering away at the 64-bit calculations. Course, the 32-bit procs do have SIMD extentions that help with these some...

Anyhow, I\'m using the same 32-bit version of BOINC as before, and pretty much installed the same thing and then transfered it over. Thx for the help and all...

Some initial observations, and also a note for some users. The RAM requirements on Vista are much higher then winXP Pro. Microsoft minimally requires (based on their specs) 512 MB of RAM but recommends 1 GB. As has been true in the past, and as I and others rather expected, double those values. On a clean Vista install, with the Radeon (for x86-64 drivers) and the sound added for my nForce, I\'m booting up using about 900 MB RAM just for the OS. Yes, that was read correctly. I now have 1 GB...

One is really going to want 2 GB, at least if the beta is any indication. In practice, this could go up or down, and it\'s hard to say now. On the one hand, betas can have debug code in them that when compiled out might bring the resource requirements down a bit. However, unless it\'s a feature complete beta (which I haven\'t at least heard MS locked the feature set down yet), more features can mean more RAM. As these 2 considerations can play at odds to one another, not sure where the final balance will lie, but seriously doubt CPDN, BBC climate change, and definitely seasonal attribution users will be wanting 1 GB only.

With RALPH and Einstein running on my comp right now, and a browser open, it\'s using about 956 MB RAM according to task manager. I\'ll be looking at trying to save up some money for a RAM upgrade again, either to 2 or 3 GB, and suggest anyone else considering Vista do the same.

Otherwise, much like Linux-64, the UI, and definitely 64-bit apps running off it are much more snappy and quicker to respond. This has been even with the heavy memory useage (well at least before the point I start commiting more memory then is physically in the box). Obviously, in XP-64 (which for support reasons there\'s good reason people, including myself stuck with it), really didn\'t unlock all of the A64\'s true potential...
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Message 23130 - Posted: 12 Jun 2006, 21:48:46 UTC

Interesting. Thanks for the observations.

"We have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo
Greetings from coastal Washington state, the scenic US Pacific Northwest.
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Message 23135 - Posted: 13 Jun 2006, 8:59:44 UTC

Yes, thanks for the observations.
I still think there is actually no need for 32-bit BOINC (core/manager/studio/view/whatever). As BOINC communicates via sharing memory/DLL and doesn\'t need much memory (10 MB will do) and it doesn\'t perform any calulation...why 64-bit?
But it needs ability to report \"I\'m running on 64-bit capable CPU + OS).
What we \"need\" is 64-bit BOINC applications...

It is still beta so memory usage may change (hopefully) before gold version.
I agree it will be more demanding than XP - perhaps twice as much as I\'m used to with every next egenration of OS from M$.

Even nowadays, one can use 2GB for hard-core gaming (not mentioning graphics works, rendering etc. where it was commong even years ago).
The trouble with M$ and 32-bit always was and still is: it can\'t use 4GB. So, where 2GB for Vista + latest high-end high-resolution with high-details game titles might not be enought to run smooth, 4GB is not an option as it can\'t be fully utilized with 32-bit Vista (or XP SP2). I\'ve been trought this so I know what I\'m talking about.
To lower memory usage, I have disable (actually removed from installation) redundant services and applications like remote desktop, M$ Outlook Express and many more...

A 64-bit version of Vista looks like a solution (and XP x64 did the job for me as well). Still the drivers availability is kind of precarious - for example for my HP BI 3000 DTN - a $1000 piece of hardware...not a $50 crap of looks-like printer.
Hopefully, when Vista goes live, HP will make proper drives if they were unable to make them for XP x64.

Anyway, for now, I don\'t see much benefit running Vista in a near future.
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Message 23166 - Posted: 16 Jun 2006, 6:22:50 UTC

A few things about the MS Vista Beta2.

It is not an upgrade, if installed without cleaning HDD then old programs and documents are put into separate archieved folders. The programs have to be reinstalled to work and files opened and resaved to the new \'My Docs\' folder.

BOINC/Projects run fine, but needs to be re-installed, I copied old folder over to the new Program files location but Seti and Einstein units errored out because I forgot to remove the archieved attributes, luckily not running CPND on that machine at moment.

Drivers can be a problem, network card was my main worry, but found the XP version worked ok, one would have thought they would have supported an Intel Pro NIC.
It hasn\'t found the sound card at all, but I\'ve not looked further at that problem. And the Samsung laser printer drivers refure to load, unknown OS.

I therefore wouldn\'t recommend it for anybody\'s main computer.

Vista also keeps popping up comfirmation boxes to run some programs CA AV (free) {Norton and AVG don\'t work} is worst as you have to be there at start up because the network is blocked if popup is not OK\'d and most maintenance screens, Control panel is one.

Andy

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Message 23168 - Posted: 16 Jun 2006, 7:09:05 UTC

Popup hell from the sounds of it.

Too many popups reduce security rather than increase it, since people get conditioned to click \'yes\' for everything automatically.
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